In this episode of the Shifting Focus episode, we had to pleasure of talking with Mathias Näslund, Co-founder of CRDBAG:
FPAW: Hello Mathias, Thanks for taking the time. How have you been?
Matthias: I'm good. I mean, it's Black Week now, so it's been crazy for us this week, and also, at the same time, we're moving our warehouse. Up until now, we've been packing everything up north in Sweden, in Sundsvall, where we have our, head office. It`s just the three of us, Andreas, me and Rasmus, and we've been packing, everything by our own.
Our plan is to move the warehouse to a 3PL thing, where they pack and send it out. But it's been a mess and we were supposed to have everything moved before Black Week, but it didn't happen. There were technical issues with the integration to a new system. So yeah, this it's been crazy this week.
Like that's not what you want to do, to talk about how to ship stuff. You just want to make products.
FPAW: I guess that`s just part of the process?
Matthias: Exactly for sure for sure.
FPAW: So thanks again and maybe we start just to introduce yourself. How did you start in the industry? And, and what have you been doing since then?
Matthias: Yeah, sure. Actually I'm coming from the music industry from the beginning. So that's where I started out.
I moved to Stockholm, Sweden, where I live now, and I started studies at the Royal College of Music here in Stockholm, more like music production and film scoring. So that's my, touch point with the film industry. I went to the same class, for example, with Ludwig Göransson, who wrote for the Mandalorian, and stuff like that.
He won a lot of Oscar, so he obviously had more talent than me writing score, for film. But I think when I was studying at the Royal College Music, I started to like writing for film scoring, composing music, and then we started to get into the like more music video and stuff like that.
And it was just a coincidence, I always loved film, and , the whole concept with different kind of medium, music, film, voice - everything that you put in that makes something more than the components itself.
When I was studying at the music college, I was also a guitar teacher, like extra money thing on the side. And I had a quite famous film director here in Sweden called Tomas Skoging. He's one of the founder of Acne. They make high fashion clothes all over the world. But they also make film.
So they have different parts of the company. I didn't know anything about film. So I was like, you know, “What are you doing for work?”. He's like, “I'm a film director”. “Oh, okay. Whatever.”
And then I just, wanted to know more about the film industry, so I asked him, if I can be an intern. In the final month of the school, we had to take an internship. While most of the people went to recording studios and stuff like that, I wanted to see more about the film industry.
So I asked him if I can, do whatever at his company but I didn't know very much about them. But obviously they were the largest production company in Sweden making a lot of international commercials. They were very hyped at that time at least. They had a lot of talented DOPs at that time, for example, Hoyte van Hoytema, he's from the Netherlands, but he lived in Sweden for many years and from there, he went to Hollywood.
So, from not knowing anything about the film industry, I dived straight into, the center of, at least here in Sweden, of filmmaking. And, I learned a lot during those months.
Because I as a knew the owner of this production company, he was very kind to me and let me take a lot of responsibility, even if I didn't know anything about anything.
So it was good school, but at the same time I didn't like the environment with the production company. The hierarchy in the music industry was completely different. Beeing a PA and stuff like that, it wasn't very funny.
So I just started my own production company with some couple of friends from the royal college. It was like a new era at that time with all the DSLR stuff coming in. More or less, you could just start a company and the next day you had jobs.
So we were more and more involved in the film industry and because of that, me and my brother Andreas, who also is the co-owner of CRDBAG, started a small rental house here in Stockholm, renting out our stuff, our own equipment in the beginning and slowly building it up.
It was like a small scale thing. But the fact that we were starting to meet all these people every day, renting out equipment and also working in the industry as well. It was a great way to, learn and just to know stuff.
So I think that was the start for us, and the background. I had this equipment and people starting to ask me to to assist them. Owning equipment was easier if I just came to the film set and and run the camera and you everything about it.
So I have all the time been working in the industry. I've been working as a DOP and a first AC, but mostly because I did own the equipment
We were alos quite early, using gimbals. I think we were one of the first ones in Sweden to have the Ronin, when the first Ronin came out and also been interested in that kind of new tech within the industry. We also investeted in the MoviPro right away, so could offer it half a year before most companies had it.
It was very technical stuff and a lot of people didn`t like the gimbal at the beginning and so they needed someone to operate it. That helped me to slowly moving up here in Sweden. It's been a great school for me to just, you know, hang around with these different kinds of people from, beginners working music video industry to like top notch and a high end commercials. So yeah, long, long answer on that one.
FPAW: That's nice. It sounds very interesting. So from my understanding, you've been more or less from, almost from the start working on both ends of the industry? On the one side, working on set, on the other side, running a business to offer solutions to the industry?
I mean, that's a, that's a good start of of building and offering solutions for the people, if you see what their problems are. Maybe we can talk about when you had the idea of CRDBAG and how this started? Did you have the idea first or did you say, okay, I want to offer something different, beside renting equipment in this industry? What was the process behind that?
Matthias: It's a good question. We were three co-founders in the beginning. It was me and my brother, Andreas who were running this rental house together when we were renting out camera equipment, but it was like a side hustle as well, you know, to make some extra money. Small scale thing here in Stockholm, but we've also been interested in, the equipment and stuff around it. And one part of that is how we pack stuff effectively. Like in a great way for the customers and for us as well. Taking care of the equipment and just pack the gear in, in cases and keep everything organized.
Especially when you're renting out, losing one cable is not that expensive. But because of that missing cable, especially if it`s not on stock, ends up that you can`t rent out the whole system. So the camera is sitting around, waiting for that one cable. So it was obvious for that we need to take care of the equipment and make sure that the clients know what's supposed to be in the kit. And from that, I think it was me, starting to pack stuff in, cheap zipper bags, and just try to organize stuff.
One day, a first AC came back and loved the way we packed all these accessories. There were these small bags. It's very fast for to find stuff and I had labeled them with like a gaffer writing what's on it. You know, very simple stuff, but we realized that is really speed things up when you have everything sub packed and clear written, what's supposed to be in it.
So that was the initial start. One day, Andreas I made this prototype, and ordered it on Alibaba. He had this idea how to make the bags so made a drawing and just ordered it from some random factory in China. First, we got this really crap bag that was not good at all, but the basic idea was still good., The sizes, for example: He made these four different sizes like we have now, like small, medium, large and XL. So more the same sizes as we have now.
We started to use them for ourselves to speed things up and keep everything organized. And then clients started to ask us, what those bags were and where they can get them. So it after a while, where we made the decision to make something out of this. We've all been looking for something, like a product to make within the industry just for fun, to have something to do. But at the same time we haven't made any kind of physical product before so it was new for us as well.
We started to make a first film clip where we used the bags and put it up on our Instagram account. And from that account, it started growing, organically from day one. Already the next day, we had like ten questions from people all over the world asking where to buy those bags.
Instagram has been a huge part of, building the company from the ground, especially organically like that.
FPAW: So you started the company with two co-founders, so three in total. That`s you, your brother and Rasmus?
Matthias: Yeah, Rasmus is the designer. That was the next milestone for us.
At first, we were doing this on the side using this bag and we're figuring out a way to sell them. But we weren't happy with the quality. It was still not good. So we made more prototypes, but we didn't have the experience of making a physical product .
We reached out in our friends and colleagues. Andreas and Rasmus, they live up north in Sweden, a place called Sundsvall, and I'm based in Stockholm, so we have two different towns here in Sweden where we work from. So, Andreas asked around up there, and someone told him about this guy called Rasmus.
Rasmus has been a shoe designer from the beginning. He's been working for a Swedish brand called Haglöfs and Puma, the German company, and Designing shoes for different kinds of companies, for 15 years or something like that. So he's like a hardcore product designer from the beginning.
The last couple of years he's working at a small bureau up in Sundsvall. He also had an own skate shoe brand for 10 Years that he'd been running all over the world. So Andreas and I tried to meet him, just to see if he had any feedback, and how to improve the product. That was during the pandemic and it was not possible for me to travel.
So Andreas met with him in real life and then he came back to me and he told me: “Rasmus, he was like smelling the bag, man.”, “Like what?”, “We need to have this guy. He's smelling the bag!”
So he didn't like the plastic and stuff like that because of the poor PVC quality, which we didn't know it at all. One day later, he called us up and said “I think you have something going here. I would like to be a part of this.”
So we had a video chat and the next day, we have started the official company. From there it's been quite fast. In a couple of months Rasmus came out with what's supposed to became the CRDPOUCH.
So when we found that kind of missing piece that was Rasmus, it went quite fast. We started to make our first batch. We didn't have any money, so we took a small microloan from the government to make a first batch.
And to make a small batch in physical products, it wasn`t easy to find a factory. It was quite like a challenge for us.
FPAW: So How big was the first batch you ordered?
Matthias: I think it was like 3,000 bags and that was, much more than we, thought we would sell at first, But there is no way you can find a factory making just a thousand bags. So I think we make three thousand bags, and we're like, man, this is gonna last forever. How are we ever gonna sell these? So we used a lot of Instagram. That's been always been like the way to show the product to find new customers. And we're starting an e-commerce site, you know, and stuff like that. However, I think in like one or two months we sold out most of those bags. It was quite fast, in the beginning.
I think we build up a customer base before that by talking about the bag, showing what we'll be doing. So I think quite a lot of people knew about us even before we started selling them because of that, so that was good start, but it was also a confirmation that we did something right with this and people really needed this kind of product.
Even today, people ask me, what the hell it is just a bag. What's the thing with these pouches you're selling? And that's the thing, you know, we have competitors, who are selling other kind of bags like that, but I think the way we really try to figure out how to optimize these little small pouches, that's what people really like.
Just to ask people how they use them, is also a huge part with Instagram for us, in the beginning. Also involving users all around the world, asking them on Instagram, DM them, and then they would like instantly answer and give us, their opinion. People are really kind and want to help and share their opinion.
That was a huge insight for us in the beginning also how kind people are in the business and sharing things between each other. And we also wanted to make a great product for them. So it's been a good loop in that way.
Instagram in that way, is amazing. To be able to reach out to someone top level in the industry and you will get the answer from them right away. As I'm a customer myself to other brands as well, I'm surprised that other companies don't use that more often to like, really dive in and ask people in that way.
I mean, it's a great way to get information about how to make stuff better.
FPAW: I agree, that this is a very important aspect in starting a new company or developing a new product. You cannot know everything by yourself. So to get input and ideas from your customers is gold.
Matthias: Exactly, for sure. And I mean, for us as well. Even if I'm a filmmaker myself and renting out equipment, I have like a gut feeling of what's good. But people work in different ways and are much better than myself. So if I can ask them how they, so I don't have to invent the wheel again.
In a professional environment, it's one thing, because they have their way of working, a one-man-band-filmmaker with a backpack and camera, that's another thing. But all of them have too much equipment in bigger bags.
That's the whole thing with the CRDBAGS, that you have too much gear lying around in, in bigger cases, hard cases or backpacks, whatever and you need to sub pack them in some way to get everything handled. Get the things ordered and organized. So that's the whole idea.
FPAW: I mean, it's unbelievable that it's only three years since you started the company. Because if you look on Instagram and also from my feeling, it's been here for much longer.
Matthias: Yeah, I think we have started four or five years ago, but it's basically the last two years that, really started. And everything was organically up until, this last year. We started to, have money to, run ads and stuff like that.
So everything before that was, you basically sending products to people to try it out and they showed it on set. Then we get the, feedback from them. So also in the beginning, when we released the first product, we got a lot of feedback on that one. And the next batch, we started working out on this new version that's now out called Mark 2 of the pouch.
So the first version didn't have a Velcro on it, for example. So we added more kind of ways to, label the bags. That was a lot of feedback we got then. You can also attach the bag to other stuff and things like that. The first half year, when we started selling, we tried to move as fast as we can, developing the product.
And that's always been our goal in that way. Everything we did, it's been like a side hustle for us, you know, up until the last year. Doing this on the side, is hard: I have three kids, Rasmus and Andreas have two kids each. We need to pay rent.
So, we've been doing this, nighttime, mornings, on the lunch - sending stuff, in between lunch break, trying to figure everything out. It`s been like a puzzle in the beginning. Now, the last year, it`s been easier, as we've been able to work full time and we've been selling enough that we can actually have a salary from it. It's much easier to speed things when you have the time to actually do it.
So the first Year was really hard. You take a loan and take a lot of risk for yourself and you are quite sweaty. But at the same time it was is much fun and rewarding when you're getting the feedback from the actual customer and we can help them in some way.
FPAW: That`s nice. And what was the biggest mile stone from the business perspective? I guess the big milestone is from switching from a side business to a full time job?
Matthias: Hundred percent. However, beeing a freelancer, you can still work a little bit on the side, like doing film jobs and Andreas as well. But Rasmus, he was employed. So he had to resign, and actually make the decisions to go 100%, which was quite scary. I mean, even for all of us, we have responsibility to work. So a hundred percent, that was the biggest milestone, to be able to work full time or like part time at least with it and, have a salary because it makes things so much easier than when you can have full attention on things. So that was like a groundbreaking breaking point.
But also I think another big milestone was this year, because we had some investors who had taken in some money. Because if you want to grow faster or build your business, you also need more money to be able to buy more products or develop more products. So we realized quite fast that we need some money in order to, have a starting ground for developing stuff and in order to order bigger quantities of the products as well.
So that's what's quite a challenge as well, going around trying to find people to invest in our business. I never did that before. It's just like, everything's been new for us from that way. And that in itself, it's an own world, which I am trying to figure out how, how that works.
Also, coming from this rather small industry with a niche product, trying to explain people, that we're selling small bags for film equipment. It's quite a challenge for us to show people, potential
So I think that was a milestone as well. Luckily we managed to get some investors on board in Spring this (last year).
FPAW: And just right before the strike hits our industry.
Matthias: Exactly, 100%.
FPAW: How did this affect your business?
Matthias: I mean, it's hard say, as we are growing all the time and we we don't have any benchmarks to to compare. We have sold more than last year and then last year we didn't have products and stuff like that. But this year we were joining Cinegear in Los Angeles and I was in Los Angeles the year before as well, so quite a large part of our business is depending on the U.S. and especially the West Coast.
It's been like that from the start. So it would be natural for us to be there and meet people in the industry there as well. Like you said, it was exactly, when we were at Cinegear, that the writers had begun their strikes, and then just after we left, I the actors went out on strike as well. So obviously, like, for everybody, it's been affecting us as well. I mean it`s been a really tough situation for people in the industry and meeting all these people in Los Angeles as well and they're telling us how they don't know if they're gonna have, money for the next month, it's very hard. I really admired their grit and how they manage to handle this situation. But from our side, we are still in the early stages. We have started to work with resellers , which we didn't have at the beginning. It was only online. Now we have resellers around the world, and that's a new thing for us as well to, work with them.
FPAW: How did they approach you or did you search for a distribution?
Matthias: Yes, I would say so. That was also a thing in the beginning that we we didn't have the bandwidth. It was only the three of us doing this side hustle and I think from the first month when we start selling we had like resellers reaching out to us asking us to about selling our stuff. But Rasmus, he's been working, as I said, in the, in the shoe business and had his own shoe brand. He also knows that it's a lot of work, to have an organization for that as well to make everything professional. And we didn't have that in the beginning, so we kindly asked them to come back to us, later or we asked them to come back to them.
So it took like, more or less, one and a half years, before we had the time to to actually, start working on the resellers. Even if it's tempting in the beginning, as you get a lot of offers and of course you're happy that people, appreciate your products but it's also a hard thing to say no. But it was the right thing to do at the beginning. Now we have two people working only with the reseller, it's a huge difference in that way. And, and I think you need that in order to make it work correctly.
We also didn't have any, experience from that side of the business either. So everything is new. Every step is new for us, you know, trying to figure out how it works and with everything. So, yeah. Yeah, it's quite a journey.
FPAW: I think that's a good point “to say no”. I think sometimes it's so important and in rare occasions, it's even more important than to say “yes”
Matthias: 100 percent. This was based on the experience that Erasmus had, running his business. So that's the thing, also that you can use your previous, experience and learnings from other things you've been doing. Being in the 40s, we've been around working in the business for 10, 15 years and you learn stuff and you see what others do.
FPAW: So you have two employees for sales. Do you have any other employees at the moment? How big is the company today?
Matthias: It's been only three of in the beginning. We employed ourselves one and a half years ago, or at least Andreas and Rasmus, I have worked part time for another half year or something like that. But, as I said, everything was growing organically, so we didn't, like to buy any ads or doing any, commercials or anything like that. Know we started to work with a company here in Sweden helping us out with, Instagram and ads for Instagram.
And this guy, Johan, he lives up in Sweden also, all the way up in the Arctic circle. But he is this super whiz guy that worked on this company and he reached out to us himself and said, “I think you have a lot of potential based on my experience, what I've seen under kind of, so comprehensive products. and I would love to be a part of that”, so quite fast. So we decided to hire him halftime, that was in May. That was also a huge part of growing the last six months. Him coming in, have expertise how to run the ads and that part of the business also.
So he was the fourth and the first person coming in after us basically. So we were four with him and then we had the two people coming in now after that, taking care of the B2B business as we call it, or the resellers and stuff like that,
FPAW: And now you are moving the warehouse as well, as you mentioned at the beginning?
Matthias: Yeah. Up until now we've been shipping everything ourselves from north of Sweden, where Andreas and Rasmus are based. We also have some people helping us there as well, we are trying to move the warehouse now. As everything grows, it's impossible for us to keep up with that part, it's a natural thing to have like partner to help us a warehouse and pick and pack and stuff like that.
But that's been quite a challenge, just to move and get everything up and running, because it's so much. Everything around, how we pack and ship stuff, how we sell stuff online and much more, everything needs to be integrated with each other. So at the moment that tales more time than anything else.
FPAW: So all of you are living in different areas. You in Stockholm, the other ones up North of Sweden. Do you have a something like a headquarter or an office or is it all done remotely?
Matthias: Well, Stockholm is the capital of Sweden compared to other cities, capitals around the world, it's quite small cities, like 1 million people here, but it's still, it's quite expensive to rent places here in Stockholm.
As they live up north, it's much easier to find, a place to rent. They found this old brewery up in Sundsvall that no one was using in the beginning and we could rent it quite cheap. It's like this old brewery with broken walls. But I think that this has also been a part of our, starting from the ground, painting the walls, building everything a hundred percent, from scratch. But it has also been a great way for us to, build our own warehouse and our own studio.
I have a small office here in Sweden now where we have a small showroom. I can have people over here from the industry, showing stuff, having meetings and things like that, and just a place to work.
But a lot of things can be done remotely. This is one thing we have learned during the pandemic as well. Working on distance with video and we also use slack, for communicating. It's a great way, cause even if you're a small local business in Sweden, we can work with people around the world.
Also having Instagram as a big part of it, you know, at least in the beginning.
For example 50 to 70 percent of the time you can use just your phone for doing your business.
FPAW: I can agree on that.
We talked a lot about all good things. But have there been any situations where you said “Oh no, it's not going to work?” or in other words: What was the biggest challenge or problem ran into?
Matthias: I would say that happens like every day. It's always new challenges coming up and I saw someone talked about, about starting a business and being an entrepreneur. That's like having a great idea or a product but that's just a small part of it. The big part is to, to be able to stand all the challenges coming all the time. There's so many things that can go wrong, especially in the beginning of the pandemic as well. It wasn't easy to find suppliers who send, you know, the products from Vietnam, for example. Everything from that to, to find the material and to make everything around supply chain. So yeah, I can't say it's been bigger or smaller problems occurring, but they occur all the time. But we knew from the beginning that this is not going to be easy. But knowing that anything can go wrong and to be prepared for it, makes the overall process easier.
FPAW: I guess there are a lot of processed you might be scared of, because you don`t know how to do them. But at the end of the day it is just a doing thing.
Matthias: Exactly, for sure. And, some things you can ask people and learn, other things are just trial and error. You do something and when it doesn`t work out you have to do it again in different way and just be fast in that way to figure out how to work around things and adopt quickly.
FPAW: You mentioned that one of the challenges was finding the right supplier. I, I'm asking because I had a similar story where I ordered different samples from different suppliers and most of them, when you unpacked them and the first thing you realized was a smell of glue coming out of the package.
Matthias: Yes, especially at the beginning it was so bad, for us, that we knew, this is not gonna work at all. But that was the good thing with Rasmus. He was experienced and knew how it worked. He was traveling to Asia a lot, when designing shoes, he knew the factories and the whole ecosystem and how they work between different countries.
I think we were lucky to find this factory in the beginning and then being part of our journey as well, building the products. We want to see it as a premium brand.
The thing that people asked us the most about, is the price. It's a pricey product and we know that, but at the same time, we want to make it like a quality product that guarantees good quality, functionality and great design.
So you check all those boxes. And of course to check all those boxes, add up. It It`s not cheap to make it, even if people think so, maybe I thought so too at the beginning. So that's been the challenge as well, to find the right, level of how to make things well.
It's not crazy expensive for people, but at the same time, we need pay ourselves for doing this as well. We can't do it for free. So. And to find the supplier for doing that with us, has been a challenge.
FPAW: Also, it's a niche market after all. I mean, you don't have a million, bags you can sell each month.
Maybe we Take a look into the future. What's your, like, midterm or long term vision for, for the company? Are you extending your range? Are we gonna see some, CRD-Shoes, maybe?
Matthias: That would actually be funny. We haven't been talking about that. I don't think so. Rasmus is tired of shoes now. I don't know. But he's a pro, so who knows. I will try something. Yeah, exactly.
FPAW: Maybe some FPAW shoes! Some cooperation?
Matthias: Yeah, for sure. Let's do it. Let's do it. Hahaha.
No, but I mean, the whole idea with the CRDBAG for us is to, find this niche within what we call sub-packing. So it's like, we make these smaller kind of bags when you can sub pack and then put your equipment in bigger bags and work around that. Like an ecosystem of products around that, like the cord pouch that we have now, for example. Different kinds of things, ways to label them, all that kind of products, how to attach them to other kinds of equipment. We have some new products coming out now.
It came out now last month, like a sling where you can, wear it like an adapter. You can put it on your belt on your hip or in a backpack. Also we have like a wrap coming out now like a lens wrap thing. That's like a bit out of the box, like everything we try to make, we try to make it a little bit out of the.
In a new way. The bag itself is not a new thing. It's been around for thousands a years probably. It's the way we can tweak that thing and make it even more practical. I think in the end it's about speeding things up for people working on a film set, faster way to pack and unpack stuff. If you can save a couple of seconds on every task you're doing on set, that's a huge advantage at the end of the day.
Maybe that's like adding up. You can have more time filming and stuff like that. And make it a more pleasant way of working as well. It's a big thing. And moving forward, we have one product that we announced already on Cinegear, but it's like a a digital app that will be like an NFC tag, that you put in the bag or on other bags, for that sake like a Pelican or whatever you use so you can use an NFC tag. You use your phone to blip it and then you can have an inventory list what is supposed to be in the bag. That's one thing more, people been asking now for like a year.
So in that way, we want to make a product that can help you to organize your equipment. The challenge is that we now know how to make physical products and now make a digital thing that you actually can use. So that's the challenge for us now to make this product as good as we can, but we see a lot of potential with it.
FPAW: Especially in the digital world, it's all about speeding up the process, right? How do you type in or how do you add or switch inventory from one case to another?
Matthias: Yeah, and you can reuse your old packing list. If you did a job a couple of months ago, you come back, see what you packed and it's easier, it's much faster to, just copy, paste, and see what you have. I know, for example, in Los Angeles, they have something called share grid, where you can rent equipment from each other. In Sweden, we have a similar thing now and it's growing quite fast. But the same problem there, people renting out their equipment or even lending out stuff to colleagues. But being able to send a link, and you can see what's supposed to be in the bag with pictures and everything, see how it should be packed. It's very easy for people to pack.
Because ther is one big problem, when you're sending out equipment: When you get it back, it's like chaos. And usually that's where they loose some kind of equipment, on the way, when packing things down. It`s our hope to make something you can use to show people how it's supposed to be packed as well.
FPAW: So you're currently working on that? How far was the version you have shown at Cinegear?
Matthias: It was more the concept on Cinegear. We had some NFC tags just to show the basic of how we could use that. But we're working quite hard on that now the last couple of months. We're supposed to have it a beta pretty soon. So if, you know someone who wants to test it. Just a shout out, if anyone's interested in trying it out, we will make it like a beta where we want people's opinion on. Again, that's very important part just to ask people how they think it works before we really actually making a real product.
FPAW: How can people reach out to you if they are interested in beta testing?
Matthias: I think we have a link where you can sign up for a beta. It's just a link to sign up and then we will send them information about the beta. We've already been interviewing some people around, in the industry, how they would use it and how they pack stuff.
FPAW: We maybe wrap it up with with one last question, which is like more a general advice you would give to younger people or people who are thinking about starting their own company or starting their own product or solution. Any advice you could give them? Whatever comes to your mind.
Matthias: Yeah, don't do it. No, I'm kidding. I think you should do it. For us, of course, we want to sell products and make money and make a living out of it. But the main thing for us is, just being able to meet all these, great people every day or at least talk to them, all over the world. Just love that part of running the business, that people want to share their, experience and you meet those creative people every day. For us, that's the most important thing. And I think when you finding a product that people actually need or can use to make them do a better job, it's like a good loop there where you can learn from each other.
And I think that's so much fun. And also reach out to people. Usually, people want to share their experience and tell you how they work and they know what they need. So that's a big, big thing for us, realizing that people are so kind.
I really appreciate that people want to help and help each other in this business or this industry. I don't know if that was a good tip, but that is a good reason why I started.
FPAW: People underestimate the power of collaborations. And that`s also the reason why I like this industry that much. Everyone is very open to help and giving advice. That's also the base for focuspulleratwork. It's a community platform and people are there to help each other and share their knowledge and experiences. So, I think reaching out to other people and share, that's, very important and, and also very nice way of working together in our industry and a very good advice.
Thank you Matthias, It was a pleasure to have you on the Podcast and there where a lot of interesting things to talk about!
Matthias:
Thanks for having me!
